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The question of where Covid-19 came from has become one of the most contentious and heated topics. Even the US intelligence community is split between those who believe it most likely emerged naturally from the wild and those who believe it came from a lab, the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

This is a conversation about where the evidence points between Yuri Deigin of the DRASTIC collective that has been researching the lab, and Stuart Neil, a virology professor at Kings College in the UK.

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Rebel Wisdom has been covering the ongoing controversy over the claims to do with the drug Ivermectin and those who claim the Covid vaccines are dangerous.

The principle advocate for Ivermectin has been the doctor Pierre Kory and his organisation the Frontline Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC). However, behind the scenes there has been growing concern about the closeness between the FLCCC and anti-vaccine activists. Eric Osgood MD was part of the FLCCC, but is now speaking out publicly about what he observed, and raising the alarm. This is released at the same time as our final installment in the investigation into the vaccine claims on the Dark Horse podcast: This is part of Rebel Wisdom’s series of films on this topic. Find the others on our YouTube homepage.

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This is the final edition of Rebel Wisdom’s series of films looking at the claims that have been made around the drug Ivermectin and vaccine safety on Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying’s Dark Horse podcast.

It is released at the same time as an important interview with Eric Osgood MD telling the real backstory of what has been happening with Pierre Kory’s FrontLine Covid-19 Critical Care Alliance:

The previous film in this series was our investigation into the claims on the Dark Horse:

Yuri Deigin’s response to Bret Weinstein is here:

Most of this film was recorded in a live event in Rebel Wisdom’s Digital Campfire, to join conversations like this, check out the membership options here:

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This film is to go alongside the main Rebel Wisdom investigations into the vaccine claims made on Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying’s Dark Horse podcast. These are a main film called Vaccines and Dark Horse, Breaking Point.
A full investigation published on Medium:…
And an article published in Areo magazine:…
Iona Italia is editor of Areo, and both she and Rebel Wisdom’s David Fuller are friends and admirers of much of Bret and Heather’s work. However the Areo article is very critical of much of their recent content. In this conversation they touch on the ethical dilemmas that come in when criticising friends, and explain the editorial process in writing and publishing the article.
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Over the last few weeks, Rebel Wisdom has been investigating the claims of vaccine dangers made by Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying and their guests on the Dark Horse podcast. This has not been an easy process given Bret and Heather are former interviewees and friends.

But the stakes could not be higher, and this issue shows up all of the problems of Sensemaking, and finding truth.

At the same time as this film is being released, David Fuller has written a piece for Areo magazine looking at the context and the sensemaking challenges involved:…

We have also released a longer, exhaustive investigation of the evidence on our Rebel Wisdom Medium page:…

And an interview with Iona Italia, the editor of Areo magazine, about the editorial process and the difficulty of balancing public and private when criticising friends:

We will be hosting a Q&A dialogue about the investigation in our Digital Campfire on Wednesday 18th August. Please come along if you are a Rebel Wisdom member, or consider joining (Explorers & Sensemakers invited):

We have also created a simple form for non members to submit questions if you wish, and we will address as many as possible during the Q&A:

We are running our highly regarded Sensemaking course again in October, check it out here:…

Bret & Heather’s Substack article:…

Films referred to in this piece: ‘War on Sensemaking’ with Daniel Schmachtenberger:…

‘Deep Code’ with Jordan Hall:…

‘The Hidden Epidemic’ with Robert Whitaker:…

Eric Weinstein: Vaccines, Ivermectin & Dark Horse:

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Rebel Wisdom’s film, “Ivermectin, Yes or No” was taken down by YouTube on Wednesday 4th August and labelled as “medical misinformation”. This is despite us featuring both sides of the argument, with Ivermectin advocate Tess Lawrie matched with two skeptics, Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz and Graham Walker MD.

After appealing the decision the film was reinstated, with no explanation so far. Which shows the problem with the unaccountability of the big tech platforms, and emphasises many of the problems we’ve been taking about in the alternative media space.

Also check out our full briefing document on Ivermectin:

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What does Eric Weinstein make of the current controversy around vaccines and Ivermectin, centred on the criticism of his brother Bret’s podcast, the Dark Horse.

In the last days, Sam Harris and former guest Yuri Deigin have both been heavily critical of claims made by both Bret and his guests.

In this conversation with Rebel Wisdom’s David Fuller, Eric talks through his concerns at what is going on, and what he thinks are the deeper currents of the problem, including a lack of effective leadership in dealing with the pandemic.

Films mentioned in this episode: Eric Weinstein, Glitch in the Matrix 2:

Sam Harris, A Contagion of Bad Ideas:

To join behind the scenes coversations about these topics in Rebel Wisdom’s Digital Campfire, check out the membership options here:

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Yuri Deigin is a Russian-Canadian longevity entrepreneur and was also one of the main researchers in the Drastic collective that uncovered evidence to support the “lab leak hypothesis”, that Covid originally came from a lab in Wuhan.
He was a guest on Bret Weinstein’s Dark Horse podcast speaking about this back in 2020, and also a guest on Rebel Wisdom recently:…
A couple of weeks ago he wrote an article for Quillette that was heavily critical of Bret Weinstein, over claims he has been making recently about vaccines and Ivermectin: In this conversation with Rebel Wisdom’s David Fuller, he outlines his concerns and explains why he thinks Bret is incorrect.
Rebel Wisdom has been covering these topics carefully given the immense importance of the questions raised. If you would like to join some of our ‘behind the scenes’ conversations, then check out our membership options here:
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In recent months, Ivermectin has gone from a little known anti parasite drug to a culture war battleground – for some it’s a potential miracle drug for treating and prevention of Covid and for others it’s over-hyped snake oil.

Discussion of Ivermectin has also led to censorship from the Big Tech platforms. But the free speech/censorship dynamic is only part of the story – is also shows how broken our information landscape is – with the advocates on one side, and the skeptics on the other – creating echo chambers and filter bubbles, and broken sensemaking.

In this film we hear from three voices, Tess Lawrie, one of the most outspoken advocates for Ivermectin, Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, an epidemiologist and data nerd from Australia who has been examining the data, and Graham Walker, an ER doctor from San Francisco who has also been deep in the science and competing claims around Ivermectin.

Rebel Wisdom has prepared a full background briefing document on Ivermectin here to go alongside this film: We will be hosting a conversation around this topic, and attempting to make sense of it live in our digital campfire on Tuesday 27th July, to join us, sign up here for as little as $10 per month: